犹太人在美国

The Jewish Influe nce in America

犹太人在美国

Y: Yang Rui, Presenter of Dialogue on CCTV 9

J: Jack Rosen, President, American Jewish Congress(1)

H: Harley Lippman, founder and CEO, Genesis 10 (2)

Y: Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon3 said last October, "Don't worry about Am erican pressures on Israel, because we Jewish people control America." Is this tr ue, Jack?

J: No, we don't control America. We advocate on behalf of Jews in America and we advocate on behalf of Israel.4 We have historically been on the right side of ma ny issues we advocate since WWII.5 We were on the right side in response to Nazi Germany. We were on the right side of the creation of the state of Israel. We wer e on the right side of promoting and fighting for civil rights6, religious freedo m and for rights of all minorities in America through the 60s, the 70s and the 80 s. And I think it's the result of being on the right side, being engaged in the i ssues we have had a great deal of influence on.

Y: Other than your strong sense of justice in many areas you've mentioned, do yo u think the most important factor behind your influence could be... money? Financial power?

H: I think you can make an analogy with Chinese communities around the world.7 I think Chinese people and Jewish people have a lot in common. They both emphasize education, family value, history, ancestors and an attachment to land. Also, the y are entrepreneurial8. They are hardworking. So when that happens, people get je alous.

Y: Are those values that you cherish so much the main reason behind the success of the Jewish people, particularly in America?

H: Absolutely! Family value, hardworking, and education.

Y: Why did William Fulbright say Israel could choose the US Senate?9

J: Jews, as well as other minorities, exercise their constitutional rights in Am erica and have the ability to advocate on their behalf. One of those ways is to a dvocate in the US Senate, Congress and US administrations. And we do contribute a lot of money in the political process. I don't think we do that because we are n ecessarily wealthier than other communities. I think we are engaged maybe more th an other communities.10 And in doing so, we get our messages across. And you find that many minority communities, including the Chinese community in America are doing exactly that today.

Y: The Chinese community doesn't have as strong a voice in the Congress as the Jewish people, though. That's a pity.

H: I just think that the Jewish people have a lot more in common with the Chines e people, in fact, perhaps more than with any other people in the world. Chinese and Jews are the only two peoples that have the longest and most continual history. And both have suffered a great deal. China suffered a great deal in WWII. Mill ions of Chinese lost their lives to the Japanese and Jews lost 6 million people to the Germans. Because of that suffering and because Jews were victims, many Jews in America are active politically, to ensure that another holocaust11 does not occur to Israel or to the Jewish people. In that spirit, Jews, like Chinese, also promote tolerance. You know one of the things I've known about my trip to China h ere is that, of all the countries I've been to in the world, China is the only country that has no history of anti-Semitism12, which is remarkable, and which is extremely impressive to us Jews, because we don't see that in many countries, part icularly in Europe.

Y: That's probably why the Israeli government turned out to be one of the few countries that accepted the People's Republic of China in the early days of our founding. The Labor Party in Israel developed a very friendly policy towards China. My next question is how many Jews are there in America.

J: Approximately three million.

Y: Harley, when we talk about the Jewish people in America, we say they are rich , they control the media and they control the banks. Do you accept this as true?

H: No, if I may be so blunt.13 If you look at the people who are really in the position to control the banks and media, you see Jews represented like you would see Italian Americans, Greek Americans. I think people tend to focus on individual Jews. If there are Jews who have very high positions in the media or in banking, they are doing it as individuals who happen to be Jewish. They are not doing it as part of some groups. We are doing it as individuals because our culture has established that you work hard and you focus on education.

Y: In a highly commercial society like the United States, if you control the media, that automatically means you will influence the perception14 of public opinio n. When it comes to the Middle East issue, some of the Arabian minority groups in America fear that the opinion of the American society has been somehow shaped by your people because of your financial power, your wealth and your control of the media. Do you agree?

H: If anything, I think the media is not balanced enough in the Middle East. I t hink we are often given distorted pictures.15 This is what we see around the world. For one, let's define Zionism16. Zionism has somehow gotten a negative image. To me, Zionism simply means that Jews have a right to their homeland and the Midd le East.

J: Look at what's portrayed in American media. They are real-life and factual17 pictures and stories. Look at the Middle East. You would portray Israel and you c ompare it to the rest of the Middle East. The fact that Israel is portrayed in a positive light, not because of the Jewish press, or Jewish-run press, as you are suggesting, but because that's the factual scene. But on the other hand, recently many Jewish communities suggest that they boycott the Los Angeles Times and New York Times,18 which are the top newspapers in the country, because of their cover age on Israel which they think leans more towards the Palestinians.19

Y: How do you estimate the influence of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee20? This seems to be the most influential organization that represents the in terests of Jews in America.

J: Extremely influential, probably the most successful lobbying21 group in America, one that's being emulated by Muslims and Chinese amongst others. I think it's effective because Americans have been supportive of that policy. If you look at the support that Israel gets today, from Christian communities in America, if you combine Christian community support of Israel with Israeli support, how hard is it for a lobbying group such as AIPAC to be successful in the Senate? It's pretty easy.

Y: What are the most fundamental values of the Jewish religion?

H: One that comes to mind is that we judge people more by their deeds than their words. For example, in Catholic religion, you can say something and you can ask for forgiveness, or you go to confession on Sunday. If I understand it correctly, it tends to forgive on the basis of your words. In the Jewish religion, we focus more on deeds than words.

J: Education, education, education! That's what our tome22 is all about.

Y: You mentioned the WWII, but why were Jews hated and persecuted in many parts of the world before and after the WWII, like what was portrayed in Schindler's List 23?

H: I think there are two reasons. For one thing...

Y: Jealousy?

H: Right, jealousy! Thank you for saying that. I think...

Y: You don't think there's anything wrong with, say, the ways Jews do business a round the world...?

J: I don't think it's that shocking. I mean, what wrong did the Jews do in Spain ? What wrong did they do to the Catholic Church24? What wrong did they do in Poland? One of the biggest lies ever perpetrated25 on the Jews was done by the larges treligion in the world, which is the Catholic religion. The Catholics blame the Jews for killing Jesus Christ. Children were taught in school that Jews killed Jesus Christ, not that Jews were rich, not that Jews have long noses, not that Jews should be hated " they killed their God!

H: I think the reason why Jews are targets is that they are easy targets. People like to blame. Hitler was looking to take power. If you look historically, people who blame others were projecting what they want to do. Hitler blamed the Jews f or being powerful when he himself wanted to take power in Germany. We were a defe nseless group. We didn't have a military force to defend ourselves. We were very easy targets.

J: Look, Harley, those are explanations that occurred later in history. The fact is that the Catholic Church blamed us for killing their God and from that emanat ed26 blame, hatred and persecution. When you go back in history, you cannot overl ook that. There was a time Jews lived amongst Muslims quite comfortably, without any discrimination or anti-Semitism. But they could not live in Europe after the Catholic Church's doctrine prevailed.

Y: Are there any major organizations that coordinated efforts worldwide to bring former Nazi officers to justice? Do you think you have eliminated all the former Nazi officers scattered around the world, particularly those in Latin America?

J: Most likely those that are left are quite aged right now and will not be arou nd much longer, thank goodness.

H: I believe that as a Jew, anyone who's the victim of racism or who has been mu rdered or fell victim to genocide27 because of his race or religion or nationalit y, should be defended. I personally thank President Clinton when he went to the a id for the Muslims in Kosovo, because I think they were victims of the Serbs28. And I was saying this as a human being, and as a Jew who has a family that suffere d in the holocaust, I believe my mission in life is to care for everyone who's th e victim of this. So I think it's important that we stand up for all people － Chinese who were victims in WWII to the Japanese － for anyone around the world － the Tutsis who were slaughtered by the Hutu in Rwanda.29 And this list goes on. I think the Jewish people feel that if the memory of the holocaust is to have any meaning for the future, it is that we stand up for all people, all human beings who have suffered. That's an important principle.

1. 美国犹太人委员会。

2. 这是一家美国公司。Genesis:基督教《圣经》中的《创世记》。

3. 以色列总理阿里埃勒·沙龙。

4. 我们既为美国的犹太人说话，也为以色列说话。advocate: 提倡；主张。

5. 二战以后在很多问题上我们的主张历来是右倾的。

6. civil rights: 民权。

7. 我想你可以（拿我们）和世界上的华人团体作类比。analogy: 类推，类比。

8. entrepreneurial: 有创业精神的。

9. 为什么威廉·富布赖特说以色列可以选择美国的参议院？William Fulbright: 威廉·富 布赖特(1905-1995)，美国政治家，曾任美国参议院外交关系委员会主席。

10. 我想我们也许比其他团体（对政治）更感兴趣。

11. holocaust: 大屠杀。

12. anti-Semitism: 反犹（主义），仇犹（情绪）。

13. 不同意，请允许我这么直截了当。

14. perception: 认识，看法。

15. 我觉得我们经常看到歪曲的报道。

16. Zionism: 犹太复国主义，犹太复国运动。

17. factual: 真实的。

18. boycott: 联合抵制；拒绝购买；Los Angeles Times: 《洛杉机时报》；New York Times: 《纽约时报》。

19. 因为他们（犹太人）认为这些报纸对以色列的报道更加倾向于巴勒斯坦人。Palestinian: 巴勒斯坦人。

20. 美以公共事务委员会，简称AIPAC。

21. lobbying:（在议会外为影响议员投票而进行的）游说活动，疏通活动。

22. tome: 大本书；巨著。

23. （电影）《辛德勒的名单》。

24. Catholic Church: 全体基督教徒。

25. perpetrate: 犯（罪行、错误等）。

26. emanate: 发源，发出。

27. genocide: 种族灭绝。

28. Serb: 塞尔维亚人。

29. Tutsi:（［复］Tutsis)图西人（卢旺达与布隆迪境内的少数民族人）；Hutu: 胡图人； Rwanda: 卢旺达。